PRAGMATIKA.MEDIA: Since we are already in your ceramic workshop, let's start with it. When and why did you decide to organize your own ceramics production?
Sergey Makhno: Our workshop was founded in 2017. Then we received the Red Dot Design Award for the Tetrapod and Flapjack tiles and realized that we needed to produce them. We started looking for contractors who could work on outsourcing. But as a result, we decided that no one would make it better than us. They bought the first stove - that's how the workshop was born. Now there are 6 ovens and 15 people. These are the best potters we could find in Ukraine: Slavko Odarchenko, Sashko Yarovy, the outstanding master Seryozha Radko, who helps us, constantly comes to teach us. Ukrainian traditions, which we are in love with, which we respect and value very much, are continued and reinterpreted here.
Workshop of ceramics Sergey Makhno Architects
Photo: Yury Ferendovych PRAGMATIKA.MEDIA
PM: Do you personally work here?
S. M.: Yes, I walk here, "sniff the clouds", eat apples (laughs).
PM: And with your hands?
S. M.: With my hands, of course, too - I work on the potter's wheel, I sculpt. There is my last work, a vase, wrapped up. I also make sculptures, paint plastics and tableware.
PM: Is this something new for you? (I point to a vessel of elongated shape, which one of the craftsmen pours with different colored glaze.)
S. M.: These are still nameless vases. Or, as I recently read, "sculpture with a functional application." Our products are more often sculptures than utilitarian objects.
Ceramists of Sergei Makhno's workshop are working on a new vase in multi-colored glaze
PM: How many similar vases will there be?
S. M.: I think there will be about 12 pieces in the series. Each one is unique in its own way. In total, we will fire this vase four times (the third firing is coming). Each time it is fired, it changes its texture, shape and color a little. In addition, glazes at high temperatures mix chaotically, it is impossible to repeat.
We are in love with Ukrainian traditions, we respect and value them very much
Photo: Sergey Kadulin
PM: Let's now talk about your main business — an architecture and design studio...
S. M.: By the way, tomorrow the workshop will be exactly 17 years old! (The conversation took place on January 23. — Editor's note) I collected my thoughts, took the documents in my hands and went to register the SPD. From that day, the big thorny path of my workshop began.
PM: And 17 years ago, could you have thought that this path would lead you to such success?
S. M.: No, of course! But I wanted it, I dreamed of creating unique things. 17 years have passed, and I still want the same thing.
PM: How did you manage to grow from a small company to a large design firm with 17 employees in these 60 years?
S. M.: With work, love, energy, passion, zeal, correctly setting goals, go forward and achieve your goal.
PM: What is your next goal?
S. M.: There are many of them. About 30 only for this hour. It is not always possible to achieve everyone, but you have to go for it every day.
Sergey Makhno in his ceramic workshop, in the background - potter Sergey Radko at work
PM: Tell us about the biggest failures during the existence of your workshop.
S. M.: The biggest failure was when I had such a client, because of whom I stopped sleeping. Because they threatened me and my family. He did not sleep properly for six months. Could only sleep during the day in a moving car. And at night, I was constantly tormented by feelings that did not allow me to rest physically. That was a failure! It happens that such people meet on the way. But, probably, you cannot do without them, because they also teach something. And thanks to them for such a school, thanks for giving me the opportunity to experience this at 25 years old, and not now, at 38. Although even now, when we have a colossal experience, our work remains very stressful. There are always clients who want everything to be just as they see it, and this, in turn, does not always correlate with our ideas.
PM: Now about achievements. What is the most important thing you would highlight?
S. M.: The company is 17 years old. In my opinion, this is already an achievement. We have good growth indicators, implemented projects in 21 countries. China, America, Canada, Spain, France, Portugal... So far we don't have projects in Japan, India or New Zealand, but we really want to, so there will be.
Our products are more often sculptures than utilitarian objects
Apartments Ukrainian Wabi Sabi 5.0, Kozyn. Design: Sergey Makhno Architects. Photo: Sergey Kadulin
PM: Can you remember the most unimaginable task from a customer?
S. M.: For example, one of the new projects under the working name "Futago House". An interesting client came and set a wonderful task - to create an extraordinary concrete house as we see it. When you are given the opportunity to create what you want, they listen to you and listen to you - this is a dream come true. Soon we will show what happened.
PM: How has the Ukrainian market and client changed over the 17 years of your work in the field of design?
S. M.: He has changed tremendously. Let's start with the fact that when we started, the dream destination was a stretch ceiling, Venetian plaster, baguettes and a little bit of gold - not in potal, but in acrylic paint. Now everything has changed globally.
PM: Do you think that you helped to educate the Ukrainian client?
S. M.: I do not possess super modesty: of course, I believe that we are indeed one of those who set trends in our country.
PM: Do you observe your followers among Ukrainian designers in terms of style?
S. M.: We create Ukrainian design and are proud of it. The global Ukrainian style is still in the process of formation. Indeed, there are very similar not only works, but also websites, project descriptions, etc. But it is not so easy to copy us, because when they see our or similar chandeliers, for example, they immediately say that this is Makhno. We carved out this niche for ourselves, although we did not invent ceramics. But we love it, and this is not a fake, not a hoax, we create important objects.
There are also many who have chosen their own path, and they are cool. SVOYA studio in Dnipro does something of its own, Slava Balbek his, Oleg Drozdov his. But one way or another, this is all Ukrainian design, but everyone has their own handwriting, everyone does it in their own way. In this regard, Ukrainians are generally cool.
When we first started, the customer's dream limit was a stretch ceiling
Photo: Yury Ferendovych PRAGMATIKA.MEDIA
PM: At the last "Interior of the Year" competition, foreign representatives of the jury noted that many projects look too international, they say, Ukrainian design lacks its own identity. Do you agree with this statement?
S. M.: Many already have a Ukrainian identity, many are moving towards it. Indeed, so far the number of authentic designers is not so great, but every year the trend changes for the better. In addition, the client, who has just gotten used to concrete on the walls, has a very big influence in the interior design, but here it is already necessary to get used to clay. If you Google "Scandinavian design" or "Japanese design", the search will yield millions of articles. Because there they observed their traditions and carried them through the ages. Now their design has a flavor of tradition. We are still forming our design style. Our country is only 28 years old. 17 of them, we are working on what we are looking for in our authentic Ukrainian style. And let me tell you, for the age of 28, we have already done something together with our colleagues. But against the background of the 24th generation of Japanese ceramists, there are probably not so many.
The Japanese see beauty in the imperfect, in the simple and ordinary
PM: Let's talk about your style - it has also changed over the course of 17 years.
S. M.: Of course, it changed, it changed and it will change. We are improving. I started with Ukraine, moved on to Japan, which opened an even greater love for my country. She returned to me, and she returned to me. The way the Japanese treat their culture, their traditions, is simply priceless. Things happened a little differently in our country, but we also preserved our traditions. We have ceramists in the third-fifth generation. And there is a huge number of talented people who live in our country. Unfortunately, many have left. But those who remained want and make it stronger, more successful, and happier. And this is one of our tasks as well.
PM: It would seem that there is little in common between Ukrainian traditional motifs and Japanese aesthetics. Where do you find these points of contact?
S. M.: In fact, there are a lot of them. The Japanese see beauty in the imperfect, in the simple and ordinary. And if we talk about traditional Ukrainian life - ceramics, simple wood, linen and hemp - we really have a lot in common. Even in architecture, there was a period when our countries were very similar. That's what we started looking for and, unfortunately, we still sometimes look for beauty in golden baguettes and plastic flutes. I would like to abandon these pseudo-styles. I'm not saying they don't pay attention to Ukrainian Baroque, Hutsul Secession or Art Nouveau. It was in our history, and it's cool. But now is not the time.
PM: How would you describe your own style?
S. M.: Contemporary Ukrainian style of Sergei Makhno. Let's call it that (laughs). But I think that we should not call him.
PM: You always repeat that you don't like the classics, but if you look at your early works, there are some classical elements there.
S. M.: Of course, there is. I have never renounced eclecticism and always loved a mix - correct and tasty. I don't "dislike" the classics. For example, there is a Tereshchenko sugar factory estate in the Zhytomyr Region. So I would live in such a thing! I would recreate and live there. What I don't like is pseudo-classics. For example, boisettes are great. But real boisers are wooden panels covered with a thin layer of gold leaf, not plasterboard walls trimmed with foam baguettes. I am an opponent of the latter. Doing it in a 16-story Venetian baroque is strange to say the least.
Photo: Yury Ferendovych PRAGMATIKA.MEDIA
PM: And if a client comes to you now and says: "I want a classic", will you take it?
S. M.: Well no.
PM: Or will you undertake to re-educate him?
S. M.: In my experience, there is a chic case — Ridnyi House. Six and a half years ago, a client came to me, ordered an apartment, then an apartment for her son. Then she came again and said: "I brought you a husband, however, he is very strict and harmful." He wants a family estate." They have already designed a house of 1 square meters. m - with all the flutes, columns, marble facade and windows with binding. After six years, we worked on the project. As a result, a concrete fireplace hall, rusty walls, worn old wood, modern ceramics. Elements of the classics remain, but everything looks organic and interesting. And the client became not just my friend, much closer - he is now my best man.
PM: But how did you manage to re-educate the ego? Or just a person was open to this?
S. M.: Closed or open - everything is relative. The question is whether you, as an architect, are ready to work with it. Now I would have already refused such a client, I would not have gone through such a school with him. But at that moment it was a challenge for me. I was wondering if it would work. We glued together a rather interesting project. And the most important thing is that he lives there happily, he is comfortable. Although what he wanted from the beginning, it is not in any way compared to what was done in the end. Yes, we change the taste of people with our projects. If you constantly go to interiors that "smell badly" and are "tasteless", it starts to seem that this is how it should be. And vice versa: the more quality interiors we have, the more people get used to it. We now have such restaurants, shops and hotels that we can easily compete with the most fashionable establishments in the world. Our business owners pay quite a lot of attention to the quality of the interiors, and this is gratifying.
Private house Ridnyi House, Kozyn. Design: Sergey Makhno Architects. Photo: Sergey Kadulin
PM: Among your idols, you always name Tadao Ando. Are there any other world masters of architecture and design that you look up to?
S. M.: I have a whole list of people who influenced my creativity, my taste in design, architecture and art. For example, Shigeru Ban. In principle, the Japanese inspire me. These artists are Kazuo Shiraga and Yaei Kusama. If we are talking about architects, I would say that Le Corbusier is also very close to me. Although it is less noticeable in our work than the influence of Tadao Ando. Among the designers, I like Nacho Carbonell, Piet Hein Eyck. Axel Vervoordt made an indelible impression on me. For many years I have been going to his museums, visiting the projects he creates. I really love and am inspired by modern Ukrainian art and Ukrainian ceramics from the time of Tripoli to the present day.
PM: In addition to modern masters, you also find inspiration in authentic objects and techniques. Can you tell us more about this?
S. M.: Of course! For example, I observed one of the techniques of Sergey Radko, whom I consider my teacher, because he opened my eyes to the art of Ukrainian ceramics. Here it is: somehow I saw that he was tapping his fresh vase with an ordinary tablespoon. Seryozha, are you not knocking today? Show me, please. (Sergei Radko takes a cutlery and starts tapping on the vase he is working on.) That's how you get small depressed dimples. By the way, the Japanese beat with wooden spatulas, but it forms a flat plane. And spoons create a unique texture. I saw this technique from him and transferred it to my Shkrub House, but for the walls. I gave the plasterers a metal spoon, and they knocked on the walls for a month and a half. And they were happy to knock, because then I paid them extra for "unique equipment".
In addition, we often use clay mixed with adobe (finely rubbed straw. — Editor's note) for the walls, and we add various herbs there. This technique has been used in Ukraine since time immemorial, we just forgot about it. The same chaff, straw, chaff - all this was added to the clay. Now we use mint, thyme or flax seed. All this is smeared into the walls and an indescribable relief, texture is created.
Shkrub House interior, Tetrapod tiles on the wall. Photo: Sergey Kadulin
Private house Shkrub House, the residence of Sergei Makhno's family. Architectural project: Sergey Makhno Architects. Photo: Sergey Kadulin
PM: And authentic items?
S. M.: I have a large collection of plates, pots, chests, and tables.
PM: Where do you find these things?
S. M.: I have already formed a circle of seekers who help me. It is possible to advise your readers to go to the antiquarian gathering at the International Exhibition Center on Levoberezhnaya. You can find anything you want there: from dolls and vintage embroideries to tables, wooden chairs, and benches. All this can be collected, restored and integrated into modern interiors. A person who has a taste and passion for it can easily find something useful there. The number of ceramics and porcelain figurines here is staggering. At the same time, it is possible to start collecting some antique items for 20-30 hryvnias. It is not necessary to have 300-500 thousand. in order to buy some interesting thing. Here I have an original bumblebee. This is the kind of bench on which they sat during the day and slept at night. She had such a mini-chest in which bed linen was put.
The more quality interiors in Ukraine, the more people get used to it
PM: In your Shkrub House, you covered one of the walls with XNUMXth century ceramic tiles. Where is she from?
S. M.: Not quite so, it's a decor made of several ceramic tiles, not a wall made of it (laughs). It is from the collection of Ukrainian ceramics, which I have been forming for quite some time and soon I will have the opportunity to show it not only to my guests.
The room of Ivan, the eldest son of Sergei Makhno, in Shkrub House. Photo: Sergey Kadulin
PM: I also read that you dismantled old houses and used this wood for the same Shkrub House. What is this story?
S. M.: Yes, I still have some wood left in my warehouse. These were the guys who traveled around Western Ukraine, bought out old houses, barns, fences and dismantled them. And the wood was exported to Holland. But by chance I managed to buy some part of it - it's practically 12 KamAZs of old wood. It remained in Ukraine and is now integrated into our projects.
PM: That is, it turned out not only ecologically, but also economically?
S. M.: It is not so economical, but it is definitely very beautiful and authentic. Such a tree with real cracks and flaws that have formed over time cannot be copied or recreated.
A collection of ceramics in the Shkrub House living room. Photo: Sergey Kadulin
PM: A tribute to traditions is wonderful. And what about new technologies? How do you use them in design or implement them in the projects themselves?
S. M.: We respect, value and apply new technologies in design. Digital technologies are already an integral part of our life. Starting with the fact that you record the interview on the dictaphone in the phone, and ending with the fact that you can use a mobile device to adjust the temperature sensor when you drive home. Did you know that you can adjust the heating system so that it drops to 17 degrees when you leave, and increases an hour and a half before your arrival to 23 degrees? Thus, you save a large resource of electricity or gas with the help of an absolutely simple program that has been around for several years. Or, for example, the Japanese TOTO toilet drains one and a half liters of water, while a standard toilet flushes 9 liters. Did you know about it?
PM: I didn't know.
S. M.: The Japanese understand that water is a valuable resource that needs to be saved. And for us: "Oh, TOTO is an expensive technique. Why should we buy such a toilet?" No one knows why it is so expensive, what kind of technology it has. We know this and tell our clients about it. But for someone this is an argument, and for someone it is not.
Doing it in a 16-story Venetian baroque is strange to say the least
Photo: Yury Ferendovych PRAGMATIKA.MEDIA
PM: Tell us about the social projects that your studio does. For example, about "Dacha".
S. M.: It's not that I don't like talking about it, but I think that chickens are counted in the fall. "Dacha" is a project of the "Zaporuka" fund. They built a large two-story house in which cancer patients live when they come from the regions for treatment in Okhmatdet. Several families can live in this house at the same time. Our studio designed the interiors of all rooms for free. While the winter is going on, "Zaporuka" has suspended the implementation of the project for a while, but with the beginning of spring, everything should turn around again. Everything is done on a charitable basis. We made the project for free and will conduct the author's supervision, someone supplied the water for free - and so on. Therefore, dear readers, if you are ready to join a good cause, we will be very grateful. You can write to us or personally to the head of the fund Natalia Onipko.
PM: How did this collaboration begin? Did they contact you?
S. M.: Yes, they came to us, and we believed. After all, they knock on us quite often. But there are really many charlatans - that's scary. We definitely helped someone, but someone took advantage of us. And I would really like to help. And yet another direction of ours is cultural development. We are building a large cultural and social project, but we will talk about it a little later.
Bedroom at Oko House. Design: Sergey Makhno Architects
PM: 2020 has begun. What do you expect from him creatively and professionally?
S. M.: If we are talking about the product, then it is participation in several world exhibitions of object design and several expositions abroad. Architecture and design is a presentation of the Futago project and the project "In Search of a Ukrainian House" about the formation of Ukrainian design. We are also actively working on a cultural and social project — the first book about the work of ceramist and artist Sergey Radko "MamaSolntseUkraine". And, of course, new countries are waiting for us - about ten this year.
