Nina Maso. "From spoons to the city"

At the end of January, the Poliform by Domio Group showroom hosted a presentation of the Spanish brand Santa & Cole, which, according to its founders, publishes (not produces) furniture and lighting items. And the co-founder and editor of Santa & Cole, Nina Maso, who visited Kyiv and introduced the showroom guests to the history of the company and its most modern developments, seems to radiate light herself. Before the official part, we managed to talk with Nina and learn first-hand about the similarity of her work with editorial work, about the broad perspective of design and, of course, about the philosophy of the world.

Nina Maso and Konstantin Kovshevatsky (PRAGMATIKA.MEDIA) during an interview at the Loro Piana Interiors showroom in Kyiv. Photo: Yury Ferendovych

Konstantin Kovshevatsky: When I was preparing for this interview and reading materials about Santa & Cole, I noticed that any mention of your brand is accompanied by the famous maxim that when-that, в 1952 г., formulated Ernesto Rogers, brother Richard Rogers, describing a broad perspective design: "Here are the spoons to the whole cities". And what for you? in this connection "spoon" and what is "city"?

Nina Maso: When I talk about "spoon", I mean what surrounds us, the objects that are near me every day. They completely identify me as a person - the way I dress, the way I live. They manifest my self-awareness, and the design manifests all this. At the same time, the spoon can be beautifully made and just as beautifully useless.

"The city" in this case is everything that belongs not only to you, everything that you share. This is a public space common to many people - the street you live on, the park on it. Therefore, "from the spoon to the city" is the process of creating your world as a whole, from practical elementary objects to the environment and environment in which you are, to the community. Therefore, we were initially aimed at creating, or rather, publishing those things that manifested us as individuals.

Nina Maso. Photo: Yury Ferendovych

So you will never find a lamp in the Santa & Cole catalog that I wouldn't put in my own home. And in the same way, in 1992, we began to think about the environment in which we live, about our city - Barcelona then hosted the Olympic Games. And we thought, why not take communion? We decided to release a special line of products under the Santa & Cole brand for our city: street lamps, benches and everything that makes the common space we share with the residents of Barcelona better. This, of course, is a more difficult job, because when we talk about creating items for the home, we mean a completely specific person. And when we mean the whole city, politics and municipal authorities with whom we have to interact also come into play. And the care of our objects falls on the shoulders not only of their owner, but of the city as a whole - you never know how carefully they will be treated.

"From spoons to the city" is the process of creating your world as a whole

K.K.: The Santa & Cole brand has existed since 1985. For Ukraine, the term is general. Many of our companies that operate in the field of design live much less. In connection with this, the hotel will ask: what makes it possible not only to exist for so long, but to remain relevant in the conditions of the fiercest competition and to create products that seem to us to have come from the future?

N.M.: (Laughs.) I think the passion with which we work is to blame for everything. I was not yet thirty when my passion for design completely absorbed me. There were only three of us, but we were all equally passionate about one idea. I want to say that I still do not consider our company to be very big, but even today, when new people come to our staff, they are quickly infected with the same passion that drove the three of us when we created the Santa & Cole brand. And now, when Gabriel is no longer with us (Gabriel Ordeig Cole, one of the three founders of the Santa & Cole company and the husband of Nina Maso, died suddenly in 1994 — Ed.), but his principles and his vision continue to live on in those young people who work with us today. I call it a "viral attack" because our passion infects people.

Tripode G5 lamp, designed by Santa & Cole Team, 1997.
Photo provided by: DOMIO HOME INTERIORS

In general, we say this about ourselves: "We are small, we are independent, but we are global." So, now, for example, there are many design offices in Italy that belong to large corporations. And Santa & Cole with its staff of only 60 people does not belong to anyone. No one has swallowed us yet! At the same time, our globality is expressed in the fact that we work all over the world. And I like to spread our ideas globally — you can't imagine my joy when I see Santa & Cole objects in Kyiv or Paris! This is exactly what we were aiming for from the beginning.

Sin table lamp, designed by Antoni Arola, 2013.
Photo provided by: DOMIO HOME INTERIORS

K.K.: Does the difference (if it exists) in the emotional perception of your objects in different countries of the world matter to you? And do you make Santa & Cole products different for different regions?

N.M.: Yes of course. There are many products that are not sold at all in one country, and are wildly popular in another. Now I'm just trying to understand the types of personality that dominate in different countries and, accordingly, form the demand for certain design objects. Yes, one of our agents, who lives in Stockholm, often tells us about requests for changes in the finish or materials of our classic products. At the same time, we have lamps that are liked by everyone without exception - be it in the South or in the East. Very interesting process - understand what made the design so universal in this case?

I will never give preference to this or that popular designer if I don't like his product

K.K.: In one of your interviews, I came across the following phrase: "We don't do design, but our work is similar to editorial work, and the Santa & Cole brand is more like a publishing house." What do you mean by these words?

N.M.: The concepts of publishing and editorship came from the literary world. Now they are used everywhere, but earlier they were used in the field related to the production of books. This is the principle of demonstrating peace of works-the author, and the editor and publisher are behind everything by this — by author and ego product. Editor does not demonstrate yourself, it very humble work. Us more important total object. And I never I will not give preference to or another рto a twisted designer, if I don't like the product itself. But if I like the product, I will cooperate with the designer. Editing is a selection process. We are just publishers, and because we do not produce anything ourselves, we do not have production facilities. We are looking for workshops, we cooperate with manufacturers, and the product comes to our warehouse ready in a box. And further we are engaged in its distribution. In the literary world, of course, everything is much simpler, because for the publishing business you only need paper!

Nina Maso talks about the history of the Santa & Cole brand as part of a presentation at the Poliform by Domio Group salon in Kyiv. On the screen is a picture of the founders of Santa & Cole in the 80s. Photo: Yury Ferendovych

K.K.: Oh, if only it were so!

N.M.: Yes? Then we understand each other (smiles). Our field, it seems to me, is much more labor-intensive and resource-intensive. The people I work with often scold me and suggest that I focus on creating something-the more simple things, pier, like us it will be to manufacture?! After all when you See on ours ware, can easily notice, that we use huge number different materials — metal, glass, дерево, skin, Ceramics. Yes , in production our volumeekty is much more expensive than the imaginary lamp Made in China. But on the other hand, we know for sure that we invest in the production of worthy, worthwhile things, in manual work, in craft and craftsmanship.

K.K.: You produce both fresh objects, only developed by designers, and reissue products that have already become classics. How do you find balance in this issue?

N.M.: Yes, it is very important for me to understand that if I take any objects from these two categories and put them next to each other, I see objects that do not contradict each other - they must "friend" each other. But it is even more important to understand that the objects republished by us are the product of rethinking and refinement, the product of creative perfection. We think about what did not allow these objects to become, that is, cult earlier? For me, this is probably like magic: an object born in the 60s-х, as a result our work suddenly becomes absolutely contemporary and for sale better, than at the moment his create. Attention! , then simply was not enough what-it is modern Technology, capable today сto make just a good product perfect. We show how it is possible to combine the latest lighting technologies with classic modernist, for example, forms.

We show how it is possible to combine the latest lighting technologies with classic modernist, for example, forms

K.K.: I never thought that the process of republishing traditional objects might require a certain amount of courage. In the Santa & Cole catalog, I saw the Babel lamp, designed in the early 70s-х Angel Job. He fulfilled from alabaster, on mine взгляд, very warm and beautiful stone. But you How-it was explained his then unpopularity the, that this material is mainly related to cheap souvenirs for tourists.

N.M.: The history of the creation of the ego is very interesting in itself. I saw Babel in one of the night bars in Barcelona and was amazed by its warm, honey-hued light. The problem was that translucent alabaster is perceived as low-quality marble. And I thought: why not give the lamp in general and the material in particular that new value that it was originally deprived of? The courage you are talking about, in this case, was not needed by us, but by Angel, who invented this lamp in 70-х. In the catalog Santa & Cole lamp got в 1988 году. It me Like until now pores, and she is I have at home.. Мы were selling her in the bar and there she is occupied his a place at the bar rack. Here imagine yourself: you yourself came to the restaurant in the evening, sat down at the bar next to Babel - what else do you need? (Laughs.) At the same time, it shines and looks simply amazing!

Babel lamp, designed by Àngel Jové, 1971.
Photo provided by: DOMIO HOME INTERIORS

But for 20 years almost no one was interested in the lamp, and in 2009 we excluded it from the catalog. Then, two years ago, a young architect came to our showroom, who saw the lamp there and asked what kind of miracle is dusting here? And advised to urgently put it in the catalog again. I followed my ego's advice. We presented the updated Babel in Milan in 2015. And what can I say — the success was overwhelming! In three years, we sold more copies than in the entire 20 years since its creation. It's just her time! And you know who is surprised by this the most? The author of this lamp, of course.

Yes, sometimes I have to clean things-then from the catalog. And this quite does not mean, what is that objects me cease like. Simple them necessary wait, while will come who-that's young and will say: they beautiful!

Another interesting point is that we really are pioneers in design. At 80-х we released very simple lamp with lampshade from cardboard - us wanted to back to warm the light in period, when in fashion were fixtures with lampshades from metal. Look — now so make all! True, must recognize, that's not all hold onvayut our high level in production: many copies of cardboard lampshades simply burned...

Cestita Batería lamp, designed by Miguel Milá, 2017.
Photo provided by: DOMIO HOME INTERIORS

K.K.: I wanted to know about one more bold lamp - I saw it, however, not in your catalog, but on your Facebook page. This object consists of an electric wire, a light source and a simple white bucket for paint.

N.M.: Oh yeah. It hangs at my house!

K.K.: And in this connection, I would like to ask you about the sources of inspiration. When I was younger and dumber, I thought that inspiration was something that you didn't care about.-they say only the elderly people. Now me it seems, what inspiration - thing absolutely measurable. И you can catch ego anywhere - and in a paint bucket too. How does it happen to you?

N.M.: Of course, I am primarily inspired by nature. But this does not at all exclude situations when inspiration comes at the moment of contemplation of quite ordinary things that surround me at home. Including in a bucket. I will try to explain. I have always been attracted to things that have something to do with them-it's not like that, that poorly or unusual look. For example, my friends often see, like in a restaurant, where me don't like quality света, I take salvopaper or a page from a magazine and begin to cover the light bulb with them, achieving warmer shades. The same is true in hotels, where I have to create the familiar atmosphere with the help of a towel draped over a lamp. In an effort to improve lighting scenography where I haven't been yet - on trips, for example - I draw inspiration.

Inspiration comes at the moment of contemplation of very ordinary things that surround me at home

I also really like, walking through the garden in the evening, to observe what is happening in different people's houses: they turn on the lights, and I ask myself, do I like their atmosphere? I am trying to understand how sensitive they are to enlightenment. I am not a designer, but I am very critical of design.

Often in conversations with designers or when studying their work, I say to myself: how boring, how monotonous it all is! They didn't see our catalog? We even decided to show no more than one or two novelties at exhibitions. You know what a flurry of new objects designers demonstrate at exhibitions. But think about how many of them are so practical, functional and aesthetic that they are able to survive at least a decade? Let's look inside ourselves and start being guided by logic. Novelty for the sake of novelty - is it logical? Our goal is not to demonstrate a new product, but to demonstrate the values, philosophy and lifestyle of our brand. To be honest, I am very upset by the questions of visitors to our exhibition stands and journalists who are only interested in new products. It is so frustrating that, probably, next time we will write there in large letters: "No new products!". (Laughs.)

Nina Maso in the Loro Piana Interiors showroom in Kyiv. Photo: Yury Ferendovych

K.K.: Unfortunately, one of the signs of successful design in Ukraine is its copyability. And you often say that preserving copyright is a big concern for you. While preparing for the interview, I came across a very loud and hopeful case — your dispute with the entire state.

N.M.: Dispute with Qatar. This case lasted as long as ten years! It is a pity that there is no full-fledged international regulatory legislation protecting copyright. Protecting intellectual property is very difficult.

KK: At what stage are you now?

N.M.: We won the trial in Barcelona. The author's right was recognized and the fact of plagiarism was confirmed. There is a man in Qatar who physically designed the lamps in question. It was important for us to recognize the authorship of the designer who came up with them and designed them for us.

Qatar invests serious resources in keeping this case quiet. The author of the lamp has already been compensated. But my colleague Javier Santo intends to go to the end, and he is confident that we will be able to win not only the court in Spain - for him this idea is fixed. A difficult moment for us was the feeling of complete helplessness and lack of control over what was happening-for that, what problems with plagiarism emerged in the second country.

Counterfeit lamps imitating the Latina object from Santa & Cole are the subject of a lawsuit between the brand and Qatar

I will tell you about how it all began. In 1998, the architect Beth Hala developed the street lamp Latina, which resembles the lines of tower cranes and is intended for lighting large urban landscapes. In 2006, we were invited to Doha to present a plan for the transformation of the Al-Waab district on the occasion of the XV Asian Games, where our lamps were demonstrated. Two years later, we received another invitation from Qatar with a request to repair damaged, as it later turned out, counterfeit lamps already installed by-then in Doha in quantity 900 pcs. We were stunned and only asked each other: What? Of course, we intend to seek compensation for all moral and material losses.

Inspiration comes at the moment of contemplation of very ordinary things that surround me at home

K.K.: And finally, tell me from the point of view of a professional, what kind of light should be in my house so that my house meets the concept of relevance in this field?

N.M.: I think that it would be correct to use the concepts of "correct" and "incorrect" light. If you fill your house with such a wide range of light sources, as I do, it will be wonderful (laughs). I believe that the lighting program should be based on the motives or functions that you have in mind for your space. Whether you intend to gather with friends for dinner, read or just relax - each function needs its own light. It is necessary to realize that not only light is important, but also form. And most of the time we see lamps without light - even if their shape alone is already aesthetically pleasing to you. But as soon as the sun sets, artificial light sources will play an important role in your home. What will this world be like? You will not be able to imitate the sun at home. And, I hope, you will not install the brightest floodlights. But it is quite possible to organize a half-day. I love it very much.

Ceiling lamp Cirio Chandelier, designed by Antoni Arola, 2015. Photo courtesy: DOMIO HOME INTERIORS

There is a very important principle of lighting that should be remembered: in countries with an excess of natural light, for example in Spain, the same amount of light is used at home in the evenings. People here are less sensitive to the world. In your case, you should not overdo it. And in general, to be honest, I am very nostalgic for candle lighting!

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Design