Back in the spring, one of the participants of the Irpin Reconstruction Summit forum was the well-known Dutch architect Hiroki Matsuura, who visited the city to develop his own concept proposal. His participation in the Ukrainian architectural community was perceived ambiguously. The information that Hiroki Matsuura planned, in particular, in Moscow, before the beginning of Russia's large-scale aggression, provoked a discussion about how ethical it is in principle to accept help from foreigners who cooperated with the Russians.
"Let's clean up Mr. Matsuura!" - we said and asked the architect questions about his plans and motives for helping Ukraine. About personal impressions from what I saw, about the peculiarities and potential of Irpen, about the prospects for the reconstruction of Ukrainian cities in general.
PRAGMATIKA.MEDIA: Good afternoon, Hiroki. Let's start with the main question. Your desire to participate in the restoration of Irpen caused a heated discussion. The main trigger for Ukrainians was the fact that your professional portfolio includes projects in Russia. And we can't help but ask about it. We would like to hear your position regarding the Russian war against Ukraine and your professional activities in this context. How can you comment on this situation?
Hiroki Matsuura: My position is very clear and distinct. First of all, I have to explain the history of my relations with Ukraine and Russia. In 2006, I worked on the first project in Russia. A year later, a Ukrainian architect invited me to develop a master plan in Crimea. For a long time I continued to work with both countries. But I never hid this fact. And when I gave lectures to Ukrainian students, I introduced them not only to my Ukrainian projects, but also to projects in Russia. I've always been open about it. And it didn't cause me any problems. Of course, until the war started.
Photo: Maksym Drobynenko
At the time of the full-scale invasion, I was leading projects in both countries. Of course, I immediately stopped my activities in Russia: I gave up construction, my position in the Skolkovo Town Planning Council, and teaching at the Moscow School of Architecture.
"When I saw what the aggressor country is doing to Mariupol, Kharkiv, other cities... Donbass, Irpin, Bucha... I simply cannot continue to practice in the Russian Federation, and we completely froze all activity in Russia without exception"
PM: How and why did the territory of Irpen become the focus of your attention?
HM.: With the beginning of the war, my Ukrainian projects were put on hold, but I decided to continue working for Ukraine. The first thing I did was move a Ukrainian family who managed to evacuate from Kyiv to my house in Rotterdam. I didn't know these people personally, I just wanted to help in some way.
I participate in various public events dedicated to the reconstruction of Ukrainian cities. Some of them take place in Ukraine, some - abroad, in Europe, in particular in the Netherlands. I paid attention to one such forum. It was called "Irpin". The reconstruction summit" (Irpin reconstruction summit) and took place in the format of an online discussion about the future of the city. Not only Ukrainian experts, but also specialists from Europe took part in the discussion. A little later, I received an invitation from the organizer of the summit to participate in the discussion and immediately accepted it, not wanting to lose my chance.
During the first of two events I participated in as part of the forum, I realized that people were already familiar with my work. From the very first day I was asked: "Hiroki, why don't you visit Irpin to see everything for yourself?". I must say, during the discussions I began to feel helpless, powerless, because I could not judge things with which I was only superficially familiar. To tell the truth, I did not understand what happened to the city of Irpin and other Ukrainian cities, having formed an idea about it from television and the Internet. Therefore, I decided to go to Irpin to see the extent of the destruction with my own eyes. By the way, Irpen City Hall was the only organization that invited me.
PM: Was this your first trip to Irpen? How long have you been in town? What were your impressions of what you saw, as a person and as a professional?
HM.: Yes, it was my first trip to Irpen. I spent a total of three days there. On the first day, the city administration organized an inspection of the area. Using a car, we carefully studied the territory, made stops near the destroyed bridge over the Irpin river, near devastated residential buildings, destroyed cultural buildings. At that moment, it was critically difficult for me emotionally.
The territory was burnt, broken. These are traces of a very aggressive manifestation of war indeed. There were all kinds of destruction here. And of course I couldn't help but feel furious. And only later he began to dream and think: "Is this the end of Irpen? No, it can't be, it shouldn't be." War damage is not the only association with Irpen, the city is much more than all of that. And I began to think about the future of Irpen, ceasing to focus only on the ruins.
Photo: Yuriy Ferendovych
On the second day of the visit, I took a bicycle and spent 6-7 hours moving around the city, but without the authorities.
"I wanted to be face to face with the city, feel it, understand what it is made of. And I saw a wonderful landscape for life"
Seeing the tremendous potential of the area made me feel more motivated.
On the third day, there was a presentation and a meeting with the mayor of the city, after which many media outlets immediately published information that I would develop the master plan of Irpen. But this is absolutely not the case, because I was only invited to participate. Yes, I am ready to help in the development of documentation. But, of course, during this time I did not have the opportunity to submit a detailed proposal. And I returned to the Netherlands to prepare the concept. Whether my project will be approved will be decided later. The designer could not be chosen and was not chosen so quickly. This is a big mistake in understanding the situation.
Photo: Yuriy Ferendovych
PM: Let's clarify the term "master plan" itself. What do you make of this concept?
HM.: It is important not to confuse the concepts of "master plan" and "master plan". What do master plans of Ukrainian cities look like? This is a kind of map where different zones are painted in different colors. Residential buildings are highlighted in yellow, commercial buildings in red, and park areas in green. This is the base, what we call "zoning" or "space-off plan". It gives an idea of the planning of the city. But the general plan never explains why the zones are distributed in this way and not in a different way. There is only technical information about the location. But the master plan logically substantiates on what basis there should be residential buildings here, a multifunctional center here, and a park here.
In international practice, a master plan is sometimes called an "urban plan" or a "vision of a city plan." The master plan simultaneously records the current situation and provides a vision of future development. This is a kind of illustration of the logic of urban planning. Citizens must understand the vector of movement and development in order, in particular, to oppose illegal construction. The master plan is associated with additional documents and strategies. It can be perceived as a kind of agreement, a contract between the city authorities and residents.
But very often the principles of creating a master plan in partnership with citizens are violated. Not only in Ukraine. In Japan, the government makes decisions and plans, but people often remain in the dark about what is going on. This also happens in Europe.
PM: How different are the approaches to creating a master plan for a destroyed and a peaceful city?
HM.: Does the war affect the formation of the master plan? I would say yes and no. On the one hand, we must first record information about the destruction before deciding how to restore the lost housing stock and what to do with the dilapidated houses - to build on or demolish. This also applies to infrastructure. Of course, if communications and highways were damaged by the bombing, then they will have to be restored.
The master plan for a peaceful city does not contain such information. When we talk about the future of Irpen, we should also think about how to make the city more protected, less vulnerable to war, if the situation happens again. This is also additional information that is not usually part of master plans. But architects always deal with a unique context — unique for every city, village, state. That's why it doesn't matter to me whether I'm working on a master plan for a ruined city or a peaceful one.
PM: What can you say about the features of Irpen, its pros and cons? Do you already have an idea of what development scenario to offer the city?
HM.: Irpin has a unique location - it is very close to the capital and in a forest area. The rivers Irpin and Bucha form a triangle, and the city itself is the center of this triangle. Nature and proximity to Kyiv are the reasons why many people move here to live. For example, it is chosen by young people who do not need to go to the office every day. It is an ideal place for young couples: the housing price tag is lower, and the nature is richer. And you can always go to Kyiv for the weekend. Therefore, Irpen has a high birth rate. A young city is always a powerful potential and new ideas.
But I also saw flaws. For example, a railway passes right through the center of Irpen, which cuts it into the eastern and western parts, which are not closely connected. We would like to unite these territories.
I have described only a small part of the potential and challenges. This is a very big topic.
Photo: Maksym Drobynenko
PM: Can we say that small cities are a kind of playground for experiments and it is here that you can "test" some design principles and then transfer them to another scale?
HM.: So. Many ideas are born in small towns and then come to megacities. I will use the example of Japan. Because of the compactness in small cities, the authorities and residents are in closer communication, so they can easily exchange ideas, which, for example, does not happen in Tokyo. In Ukraine, many innovations are born in small local communities. Many small towns influence large cities, the region and the country as a whole.
"I put my hopes on Irpin because it has huge potential and can become a benchmark for a young city"
Despite the huge destruction caused by the war, I do not want to call Irpin a victim city. Irpin is a cool city that has a huge chance to be remembered not for global destruction, but to go down in history as an attractive place to live.
Photo: Yuriy Ferendovych
PM: How to set priorities, what to restore first: residential buildings, administrative, cultural institutions? Maybe we should start with infrastructure and roads?
HM.: The main priority of recovery now is providing buildings with heat supply, it is necessary to insulate the houses. First of all, you should take care of the windows. Speaking about the order of restoration, residential buildings should, of course, be the first to go. I have seen a lot of houses that now remain without windows. They are temporarily covered with polyethylene. You might be able to live with it in the summer, but come winter it won't work.
And for heat supply, a new pipeline system needs to be built. If the underground infrastructure is destroyed, first of all it is necessary to restore it in order to bring electricity, gas and water to the houses. That is, residential buildings and infrastructure are at the top of priorities. The next point is cultural institutions, such as schools and kindergartens, public and municipal buildings. The main question remains the question "how to live now?".
PM: At what stage is the coordination of your proposal with the city authorities and under what conditions are you ready to participate in this project?
HM.: In general, we did not agree on any conditions. As I already said, this is my first visit to Irpen to understand the city. Before I saw everything live, I didn't know what to do or how to help. It was the meeting with the mayor of Irpen that started the process. While we are in the early stages of negotiations. Now, together with my colleagues, I am working on a more detailed proposal: what plan we can propose, what drawings we will make.
Photo: Yuriy Ferendovych
PM: How many specialists are involved in this work?
HM.: Designing a master plan is not a job for one person, it is a complex team effort, like performing an orchestra. I can be a conductor, but I can't play other instruments. I would like to attract the maximum number of Ukrainian specialists here as much as possible. Architects, engineers, landscape designers, ecologists - most of the "musicians" of the orchestra must be from Ukraine. There are people who say that Ukraine does not need the help of Europeans in the reconstruction of cities, that Ukrainians can do everything themselves. And indeed, for the most part it is so, but in the history of master planning in Ukraine, there was no such experience, so I offer my services.
There are people who oppose my participation in the project because I worked in Russia. And as I already said, I do not deny this fact. But I want to clarify. I am completely against this war, absolutely against Russian aggression, and my heart is with the Ukrainians. I did not take part in any public discussions about the war - I thought first of all about what I could do, how I could influence and help. Therefore, I stopped talking and went to Irpen to move in that direction.
Photo: Maksym Drobynenko
PM: What do you think about reconstruction in Ukraine in general? How fast can this process move and how long will it take, given the high quality of the implementation?
HM.: This is quite an open question. From everything I have seen and understood now, the reconstruction is mainly a political step, which depends on the authorities, the city municipality, on European influence and many other aspects. It can be said that this is a whole complex universe of reconstruction. Regardless of the decisions made, the reconstruction process can take much longer than necessary. And first of all, the victims of this delay may be people who are in critical need of housing restoration.
One of the important features of Irpen is its compactness (population of only 60-70 thousand inhabitants), so many decisions are made quite promptly. For example, if I were asked to do something in Kharkiv, Mariupol, Kyiv, I don't know how quickly it would be implemented. And in this sense, Irpin seems to me to be very effective.
From my experience over the past few months, I will also say that there is a lot of discussion, but very little concrete action. My wish is to decide on priorities as soon as possible to avoid a long political process.
The article used photo by UNIAN. Author: Yevgeny Kolesnyk
/The material is part of a special topic "Chaos and reconstruction. The future against war"/
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