In 50 years, everyone will want to live here. A lesson in optimism from Anna Bondar

/ Urbanism /

About the fears that prevent us from changing and changing our cities for the better, about migrants that we must be ready to accept in order to survive ourselves, about the inevitability of the onset of a happy tomorrow for the cities of our country - the interview with honored architect of Ukraine, art historian Anna Bondar turned out to be diverse and diverse By the way, we touched on the topic of architectural diversity.

Anna Bondar has the professional background of a well-known architect, art historian and unique experience of working in the formal system of planning, coordination with the system of informal urbanism. All this allows her to make optimistic predictions, refuting the biblical "many knowledge means many sorrows."

Anna Cooper

PRAGMATIKA.MEDIA: The authors of the analytical report "Cities 2030. Modernize or Die Out" identified the main challenges that are facing us today - there are many of them, only you have listed 13. starting point for moving forward?

Anna Bondar: The most important reason for optimism that we have today is active residents. This is something that was not there before. When I say this, I rely on personal experience. I worked in the Department of Urban Planning and Architecture of the Kyiv City Administration and I remember well that when we initiated some major projects - the development of the Kyiv Strategy, the "Kyiv samobytny" project, the rehabilitation of the historical environment in Podil - we tried to involve residents in the discussion.

But at that time, we did not have the practice of public discussions. The maximum is a conversation on Facebook, which, as it was just beginning to be constructive, was easily interrupted by a populist statement and that was the end of it... In 2014, immediately after the Maidan, the Department literally began to be stormed by people who wanted to do something for the city. They came with specific proposals, mainly related to landscaping and improvement of the environment. Young architects, ordinary residents came in groups, individually... This is how the creation of Natalka Park began. In April 2014, residents came to us with an ultimatum: "Let's fire the head of the RDA!". I asked: "What do you really want?". It turned out that people have been dreaming of a beautiful public park on the Obolonskaya embankment for a long time. That evening, the department determined the motion vector. As a result of discussions at the round table, a beautiful place appeared in Kyiv: the residents did the main work, and then the city government got involved.

Unfortunately, politicians at the city, regional, and national levels are very afraid of residents

Despite a certain burnout (social activity is difficult to combine with ordinary life), overall the trend is very good. There are many activists, young specialists, architects, and students are added to their ranks, who do not perceive the city as a platform to satisfy their own ambitions, like some architects of the older generation. Now the students of KYSA, where, by the way, my daughter also studies, already react to ideas in a completely different way, first of all, with the approach "well, everything should be discussed!". And the residents themselves are becoming more educated, they already understand legislation, the basics of planning, their ideas and desires now go beyond "I want to put a bench." It seems to me that our people are the key to success.

In 2017, we were in Hamburg at the Congress of Western European Cities dedicated to the 10th anniversary of the adoption of the Leipzig Charter of Sustainable City Development. There they discussed how the charter is being implemented, whether it is necessary to make any amendments or corrections. And I participated in the panel discussion of mayors of Western European cities. I was a little scared, because this event is of a very high level. And to the presenter's question, "How do you involve residents in the process?" I answered that we do not involve, they themselves come en masse... But in fact, there are many mechanisms of involvement, and they are actively used by officials in Europe. But they are not legally established in our country, we have very weak legislation in this matter. And, unfortunately, politicians at both the city, regional, and national levels are very afraid of residents.

Kyiv, Podol. Photo: Andrey Vetoshkin

PM: But what is this fear connected with?

A.B.: They argue like this: for example, 10% of the electorate lives in Kyiv. Giving them a voice is scary... But you don't need to be afraid, you need to start talking. But precisely because of this fear at the legislative level, any initiative that is related to the improvement of discussion procedures, public hearings, and the involvement of residents, does not pass - it is simply not accepted.

PM: How does the understanding that the official apparatus must listen to the opinion of the residents correlate with such painful situations, such as, for example, the history of excavations on Pochtova Square? There are calls that residents should participate more actively in urban planning, but as soon as people express their wishes, the reaction from the city authorities is quite restrained, to put it mildly...

A.B.: You have now given an example of the most conflicting project and, of course, the most painful. In this project, the main problem is the complete lack of communication from the city government, they simply do not talk to anyone. Only recently has the process moved forward — some publications have appeared, the administration has begun to react to the decisions of the Kyiv Council, and is preparing some amendments to the contract. But this is all literally in the last month. And for the entire previous year, no one from KSHA personally communicated with people, did not even talk to the developer.

PM: Ostrich politics — shall we hide and wait?

A.B.: Now it will not be possible to wait, because the developer has lost so much money that the search for the guilty will inevitably begin. And the city will have to be accountable, so the officials began to demonstrate that they are doing at least something. In fact, everything, sorry, is very mercantile.

View of the Podil from the Vladimir slope. Photo: Andrey Vetoshkin

PM: Is there light at the end of the tunnel? And what could this have to do with some changes in political positions or changes in minds?

A.B.: Of course, there is confidence in changes, for which there are every reason. This is today's 25th anniversary. They are beautiful. I look at my daughter, she is 22, she already knows what I am only thinking about at my age. She wants to connect her professional activities with informal planning, she went to Urban Curators to do an internship, and she told me with such pride recently: "We are going to Zhytomyr, to the field, to work with the residents"...

In the aspect of informal planning, young specialists have already captured the market. I mean such organizations as "Agents of Change", "Bureau O", Urban Curators. If we are talking about formal planning, about changing the approach to urban documentation, then it will be more difficult to achieve changes in this field.

PM: Isn't the process of formalization of informal planning scary?

A.B.: Democracy is a procedure. In order to prevent chaos, the procedure should be formalized. I will give you a classic example of public hearings until 2011, when our profile Law No. 3038 "On the Regulation of Urban Development" was adopted, which canceled the mandatory holding of public hearings for individual objects. Prior to this, any construction in the city, except for the general plan, zoning, etc., had to undergo a separate public hearing. And how did it happen? Usually it didn't even get to the point of being "listened to". Residents of nearby houses came, some incomprehensible people gave rides, politics and unfair competition between developers were included... They all crowded into the hall. The representative of the customer and the architect came out. And only the architect installed the tablet with the project - rotten tomatoes and eggs flew, a fight literally started, I saw it several times. What does this mean? Not that hearings should not be conducted, but that hearings should be conducted correctly.

An unpopular thesis that we do not like to remember: "Urban planning is politics"

How do Germans and not only Germans do it? They do not present a finished project for discussion. And they practice early involvement - as soon as an idea, intention appears, but there is no concrete picture yet. Residents are invited and divided into groups. A moderator is assigned to each group, and each group studies a separate aspect of the problem — environmental, transport, social, and so on. And despite the fact that residents are not recognized as professionals, they are far from stupid and can talk about what worries them. In the future, customers and architects will be able to take into account their needs. Further, the participation of the public consists in the fact that they control the implementation of their proposals in the project - this is how the notorious "public control" is carried out. But the most important thing is early involvement. You can't immediately show people the finished picture. They say no, they feel cheated.

PM: But even this does not guarantee that everything will go smoothly, including with the same Germans. Just remember the scandalous infrastructure project "Stuttgart 21", which was accompanied by mass protests and led to a change of local government. That is, even with a competent start, conflicts are not excluded?

A.B.: Of course, not excluded. However, the project you mentioned has been implemented. The parties reached a compromise, of course, the developers had to incur additional costs. There is such an unpopular thesis, which we do not like to recall: "Urban planning is politics." This is a serious city policy. After all, the entire graduation document is approved by the session of the Kyiv Council. And any plans to intervene in the urban fabric will inevitably face the need to explain the idea and discuss it with residents. First of all, it is necessary to achieve a clear understanding: what is our city about? If this is a city "about tourism" - this is one story, if the main topic is "industry" - another, if pensioners - too. Well, for example, Kiel is a city of rich pensioners: there, obviously, there should be a second approach.

Overpass of the Havana Bridge. Photo: Andrey Vetoshkin

PM: And with our cities it is possible to determine what they are about? Well, for example, Kyiv?

A.B.: Kyiv is the big mother of Ukraine. This is a city that provides the greatest number of opportunities, and therefore it should be as diverse as possible. The more diverse it will be, the more successful it will be.

PM: Do you mean architectural diversity, visual diversity? But sometimes visual diversity is confused with visual chaos.

A.B .: And this already depends on the professionalism of a specific architect who works with a specific object. For example, let's take Kontraktova Ploshchad, the Embassy of the Netherlands. Is it modern? Does it add variety to the old square? Adds Will it disrupt the fabric of the square? Do not move, the architect worked very competently, very professionally. He used the meter and rhythm of the surrounding buildings, the height, measured all the proportions and made a modern building, but in the meter and rhythm of the surrounding buildings. This is an example of careful attitude to the environment and an example of architectural diversity.

PM: It's impossible to hold back, but the question is still on the tongue: what about the Podol Theater? Does the building disrupt the fabric of the historical complex of Andreyevsky Descent?

A.B.: Yes, it violates. Do you know why it is justified in this case? Because this is a public building and a cultural object. The object of culture must be accented. The question of placing a public facility and cultural object on particularly valuable territories is first of all a question of the allocation of a land plot, a question of purposeful designation. Is there a need for a theater specifically on Andreyevsky Descent? But if they decide that it is needed there, then such an object is simply obliged to disrupt the fabric and take the accent on itself.

This will be a completely different country, everything will be here

The lack of early involvement of residents led to the conflict surrounding the Theater on Podol, which is now in a dormant state. There was no discussion in the early stages, no search for a compromise, and the residents were simply faced with the fact that the building was already ready. As long as we do not develop and implement quality rules of dialogue, until they become practice, there will be a constant war in the city.

PM: Urbanists often complain about the lack of requests from residents — for quality architecture, for quality infrastructure, for the development of the transport network, for reforms. It is worth proposing some project, the creation of a new park, the restoration of a historical building, as they immediately say: "It would be better if you sent this money to the construction of a kindergarten or pensioners!". But maybe because primary needs are not met, society is not ready to focus on the topic of urban development, and all these discussions are not timely?

A.B.: Society is discrete. Part is not ready, part is ready. Yes, the quality of life is the main feature of a civilized society. And civilization is not built by the poor. It is built by the rich. But our country has a great future. In 50 years, everyone will want to live here. I think we will still find this time, I hope, and our children and grandchildren will definitely find it. This will be a completely different country, everything will be here.

PM: What is the basis of such optimism?

A. B.: Nseveral reasons. First, our people. They have a special tolerance associated with culture. We are not Romans, not Asians, we are special. We have never attacked anyone, on the contrary, we accept people. Foreigners who come to Kyiv really like Ukrainians who are open, polite, ready to help, accept and let them spend the night. All this is from the depths of Slavic culture, a society where the elderly were cared for, while in other cultures everything was different.

The second reason is that we are finally forming as a single state. Despite the fact that the war is tearing us apart, the general vector of the country is being formed. Escalation, deaths - yes, we had to go through it, we got independence too easily in the 90s for everything to show up at once. The impression that we are burnt out and giving up is a deceptive impression. We stand!

And the third reason is our nature and land.

Theater on Podol, built according to the project of Drozdov & Partners architectural office.
Photo: Andrey Avdeenko

PM: But there is an opinion that we will also have to experience depopulation, some of our cities will be deserted, because people in search of a better life will go to Europe, to Canada, to the USA, and so on. Do you agree with this forecast?

A.B.: There will be an outflow of population, it is obvious. Some people will leave Kyiv for Europe, and new Kyivans will come to replace them, so Kyiv is not in any real danger. But for other cities, yes, it will be very difficult. There will be areas of desolation, and vacant lots, and uninhabited houses... I saw abandoned 16-story, 25-story buildings in Halle, Germany, it looks very scary. The city lost up to 70 people. residents after the fall of the Berlin Wall. It will be similar with us. This will not affect agglomerations, it will primarily affect small cities. But the period will not be very long - 5-10 years at most. Everything depends on the literacy and wisdom of the parliament. And if the parliament creates attractive conditions on the land market, other people will come to Ukraine who will be able to develop it.

PM: Are you talking about external migration, similar to what Western Europe is experiencing now?

A.B.: Yes. It is obvious that we will not be able to "reproduce ourselves" quickly and in the necessary quantity to serve our huge territory, and we will have to accept people. What is happening in Germany is usually explained by the fact that the Germans are working out their karma... No, they just count people. At some point, they discovered that the carriers of culture were dying out, disappearing. And the result of the practical actions of the unspoken policy was that they opened the doors to everyone. People from another culture, religion, speaking a foreign language come to them. But the children of migrants already go to a German school, where they are taught European values ​​based on the Christian worldview, Greek democracy and Roman law. And regardless of what the child looks like, what religion he professes, he will be a carrier of German culture. Germans donate gene pool to preserve culture.

Everything can be learned, but if there is a problem with values, then there will be no movement

In Ukraine, there is a complete lack of experience in the assimilation and integration of migrants into society. For example, this does not even concern migrants, but forced migrants from the eastern regions of Ukraine. Is the Ministry of Social Policy engaged in their integration, working in this direction? And they work there.

And the most creative approaches. For example, in the Neustadt district of Berlin, one of the largest ghettos where migrants from the Middle East live, they found their original way. Trying to involve migrants in public discussions, urbanists realized that ordinary invitations and announcements do not work. Representatives of the local authorities bought a bright yellow sofa, loaded it into a truck, and arrived on the street where migrants live compactly. They installed a sofa right on the street, put up a sign. One interested person approached, the second, the third. And now everyone in Neustadt knows: there, where the yellow sofa stands, there is a discussion of some important issue - the construction of a school, the laying of a bicycle path, and so on.

PM: And what qualities, apart from creativity, in your opinion, should an official - a city planner of the future - possess?

A.B.: The most important thing is the value base. Everything can be learned, but if there is a problem with values, then there will be no movement. First of all, you need to develop love for people. The second quality is stability. This is mental stability, a health resource, and the will to win. And professionalism — good education is, of course, necessary. A Stanford graduate is already treated differently, he is listened to differently.

And necessarily — communication skills. Executive power employees in Ukraine have big problems with communication. I have seen people who, by the end of the admission day, are just green, their nervous system can't take it. Mayors of cities, not only of Kyiv, but also others, must understand that employees must be taught how to moderate the situation, resolve conflicts, and communicate. And of course, the staff will have to be expanded. In Kyiv, for example, there are only 90 people in the Department of Urban Planning and Architecture, and in Munich - 300! It is necessary to realize that urban planning is the most important issue of urban politics, therefore, in developed countries, in advanced cities, both funds and resources are allocated for this.